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Topic: Communions- Sexual Rituals of Darkness, Necroerotic practices explored
Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:55 pm

(Originally posted by dnekm ailep)

I have to disagree... It is entirely possible to have an orgasm without it having to do with the genitals at all. In my exchanges with the Lady, many of them are entirely "within", so to speak - not dependant on any physical stimulations whatsoever.
Basically, I feel that what you would call "mystical" unions with any entity override any attempt at coercing a union through a physical catalyst.

I'm not dissing the use of a physical catalyst, everybody has to start somewhere. But there should come a time when you grow beyond that point in any intimate relationship with any entity.

And to the "Rev." - getting laid in graveyards was something teenagers did in NY, so it's not that big of a deal - unless you care to elaborate further?


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:56 pm

(Originally posted by Rev. dellamorte)

Maybe I should just give up attempting a reasonable explanation for this "sex in cemeteries" stuff. I'll try again.... it is not about getting laid. It is the physical communion between two people, but the surroundings intensify it on all levels. The deeper side of it is romance, love, passion... this is not about sex!!!!! It is about a different level of consciousness.... an altered state.... a trance, fusion with another level of existence.

It has always been so hard to explain to people how I feel inside. It goes way beyond the physical realm...let's say I was having mad passionate love with someone I was finely in tune with.... what would make it better and even more fascinating? Candles? Incense? Her sister? Well, surroundings are very important as well.... a cool breeze, the smell of the earth.... the darkness of it all...

Or lets say I take that same fabulous woman out into the garage and we do it right there on the tool-bench. Ooooh yeh..... boring. Nothing like the feel of wood, the smell of oil and paint... is this making any more sense? It is a feeling acheived in the cemetery, not just the idea of doing it in a cemetery. It becomes a different level and I get high from the feelings and the smells and the blah blah blah.... does anyone know the feelings that I am talking about??? It isn't the "hey let's screw in the cemetery because that's just the hip thing to do".... it is one an incredibly complex level of love, romance, passion.... and a new vision. I am getting frustrated now.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:57 pm

(Originally posted by dnekm ailep)

My only comment, "Rev", is this:
If what you are saying, that it is a whole deal which in and of itself reaches beyond the purely physical.... then why not attempt to "commune" with Azrael directly?

This does not need a "fleshly" approach.

Do you understand where I am coming from? To interact with an entity, any entity,... you do not have to drag the flesh into it. Personally I think that the whole "incarnation" thing (i.e. - us as humans) was to see if we retain the subtle perception which enables us to perceive things which are not of this realm.

If using sex as a tool is where you're at, fine. Good for you. It's just that when someone mentions bestiality, necrosodomy, etc... it's usually to shock others and get attention.

Sex can be used in a spiritual way. I'm just trying to see past all your little hints that you won't elaborate on.

I have always been very open, in my life, about what I do, and why. To the point of actually telling a woman I was sleeping with that it was not her that I thought of/visualized/approached whilst having sex. I learned failry quickly  This is not a thing to do.

The thing is, I sense a distinct defensiveness. No one is attacking you or putting you down. But, if you're going to drop hints, sooner or later someone is going to come along and call you on that.

You are being open, I appreciate that. (Aside from the sarcastic defensivness) Let's see where this goes from here.

Anyone else care to comment?


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:57 pm

(Originally posted by SparkofSoul)

Rev., I'm glad you're sticking it out with this thread. I can relate to atmospheric energies contributing to heightened sexual expression...you're right..some people like candles, inscence, soft music, whatever. I can definitly dig the graveyard conditions. (No pun intended.) But here's something I'd like more clarification on...I, too, am a very sexual being and have had inner conflicts between balancing the avenue of physical bliss versus spiritual rapture. Having experienced both, I want to take things to the next level and go within a tomb to "find myself" and approach what would be for me the ultimate communion with death...short of actually dying, that is. I feel myself getting blocked just in contemplating such expression because I don't think I really understand where spiritual rapture begins/ends and where physical bliss takes over. I mean, are there rules about what you're supposed to do or not do in that situation? What is inappropriate or irreverent? This thread has gone the gamet of how people approach things and for what reasons...Great thread, Rev. But what I'm looking for is some input from those who have kissed death- literally, so that I can enter into my own circumstance being able to achieve a full release and osmosis with Azrael.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:58 pm

(Originally posted by Leilah)

Okay, you asked if anyone had a question. I do. Owing to what Sparky last posted, regarding, and I paraphrase here, "kissing Death directly", as someone with a professed reverence for Azrael, in what ways, owing to the nature of this topic, do you approach Azrael directly? And, have you ever had any instances where you felt that Azrael and you have had direct contact through any of these experiences, and can you tell us what you felt?

I hope that's not too much to ask. I'm just going by your guidelines that you're better with direct questions than general conversation.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:59 pm

(Originally posted by dnekm ailep)

I'm not telling you that you're wrong. On the contrary...

I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from.

If you mesh your sexuality with your spirituality, then why not make the act of physical love an approach to Azrael? And if you do so, then why not try the purely direct approach? .

But you started this thread as a "sexual ritual" topic... which I took to mean partaking of both the physical and the spiritual... If I have have misread this I apologize.

I just think that if you're going to ritualize something, it might as well have a focus. Perhaps the focus is the joining with another (incarnate) soul. Personally I've always shot for the infinite. But that's just me.


"Could I but touch, the pallid face
I would come to know the rosy cheek
for each exists in the other"
"Could I but know, the fiery embrace
I would be within the hollows of your heart
for each fuels the other"

"Could I but see, touch your life
I would cast aside the veils I wear
for we would be each other."


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,8:00 pm

(Originally posted by Mike)

Those who like to have a physical activity to facilitate/heighten
their contacting "the Death energy" (which would include, but
extend beyond, Azrael) are not necessarily on a lower spiritual
level, or relying on a crutch which must eventually be discarded
for a "pure" spirit-to-spirit communion. One chap here wrote
he felt like a "Neanderthal" for wanting physical sex!

In the spirituality of India, the individual personality of the
seeker is taken into account, and they're guided toward the
particular "yoga" which best suits their nature. The best known
here in the West, Hatha Yoga, is for the physically-inclined.
For the intellectual, there's Jnana Yoga, "the path of rational
inquiry", for the lovingly devotional, there's Bhakti Yoga. Karma
Yoga, "the path of right action", is for those who feel they can
best serve the Divine by doing good deeds. For the forceful
and strong-willed, Raja Yoga is the "path of mental concentration."

So, while some may indeed be relying on "crutches" for their
spiritual advancement, for others physical communion with the
dead will be the approach that is most fruitful, meaningful, and
yields the richest results. They may find a solely mental
approach sterile, not grounded in the flesh. Not all of us view our
bodies as cages of clay, to eagerly be discarded!

In Hinduism, different approaches to the Divine are likened to
different paths to the same goal, or lights of different colors,
which glowing in the same room, do not cancel each other out,
but contribute their own wavelength. "Shine on", all...


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,8:00 pm

(Originally posted by dnekm ailep)

Ummm, I never said anyone used anything as a "crutch"  
The only problem with using Hindu techniques as a comparison among different types of individuals is that individuals in this country were not necessarily raised in the Hindu culture, so therefore a comparison of that sort is moot.  

There are many, many approaches towards the "divine", not only Azrael - but any entity. I don't look anymore towards any outward approaches or systems. I go by what I feel, inside. This needs no methods, paraphenilia or whatnot.

Having come through the whole "ceremonial" approach via Crowley, et.al., I think I can honestly state that, for me, it is something to be outgrown. Like I said, we all start somewhere


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,8:01 pm

(Originally posted by Mike)

"Hatha Yoga" has specific techniques*, but the other yogas are simply names for
different ways to approach the Divine. Devotees of different cultures and religions, without
needing to know anything of Hinduism, would still tend to fall in one (or better yet, several)
categories. Mother Theresa - or Leilah, with her work in bringing forth the message of
Azrael's true nature - would be following the way of Karma Yoga with their good deeds.
Bhakti Yoga is simply loving devotion, which would encompass Hare Krishnas, those
singing the praises of Jesus, etc. And so forth...
My quotes around "crutch" were not in the proper usage of literally quoting someone, but
in the more casual way, for emphasizing the word... sometimes to imply irony, but in this
particular case, to indicate I was speaking of a metaphoric, rather than a literal crutch.

I found myself using the term "the Death energy" in my last post to indicate that special
aura about a particularly atmospheric cemetery, etc., a quality reminescent of the essence of
Azrael, yet not depending upon his actual presence to be there. Feeling that energy in a
place, or among the dead, would to a Necromantic feel as if they are "on holy ground".
It's an improvised and imprecise term, but I wonder if it's finding that energy/quality so
appealing that separates Necromantics from the average folks. It would seem at least partially
dependent for aesthetics and mood for its presence. Some boring, sterile new cemeteries
would be lacking in this quality, except perhaps in the right conditions. Any thoughts on this
"Death energy", anyone?

*(And is often not even grouped with the other yogas as a spiritual approach)


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,8:02 pm

(Originally posted by dnekn ailep)

Okay Mike  
Except that, using your terms - Leilah would be using Bhakti yoga, for her whole life is lived in devotion to Azrael...

My point was that people not being raised in a Hindu culture are not going to pay any attention to such classifications, they are simply going to do what's in their heart anyway.

I can't resist - "fundies" are practicing Bhakti yoga??? (You said those singing the praises of jesus...)

I could be wrong but I thought the basis of Bhakti yoga was the union with an entity (the divinity) via love and devotion. The point is to get one's being so enflamed with love towards one being that it overtakes the soul and your life becomes one continual song in praise of the divine....

Leilah is the only living person I have met in the world that even comes close to this. The bond between her and Azrael is a deep and abiding one, a bond of continual love and ecstasy even.

Somehow I think there's a major difference between that and handing out flowers at airports


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