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Topic: Communions- Sexual Rituals of Darkness, Necroerotic practices explored
Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:49 pm

(Originally posted by Mike)

Sahyinepu, many mystics have had unions with the Divine or
other spirit entities which were erotically charged. I don't think
the average Necromantic has a particularly greater "need to associate
Azrael with a sexual experience" than those mystics. But an extreme
appreciation and love of death-related things, the dead, or a personified
Death, can slide into the physical, as opposed to simply being firmly
locked in the cerebral and spiritual territories. Our minds have no
strict dividing walls to compartmentalize our responses, after all.
When you write, " I have had somewhat strong encounters with Him,
in which He has come over my being, filling my complete being, and
even overflowing it, with overwhelming pleasure. I cannot move when
this happens, and am filled with joy, it is like a surge of water-like
pleasure," that certainly sounds highly erotic! Indeed, it seems
particularly like a female orgasmic response, which is supposed to affect
the whole body more than the more genitally-focused male one, even
causing altered states of consciousness. Would it be so strange to imagine
an ecstatic spiritual bliss as you describe not also generating a
corresponding bodily response?

Of her own experiences compared to Rev. Dellamorte, Leilah has written,
"...when I "return" back to earth, as it were, it trickles down into being a
very physically sensual experience as well. Perhaps the only difference
then, is that you BEGIN in the physical and push outward, whereas, I begin
on the spiritual and it all flows downward."

Some religions condemn "graven images" of divinities, preferring that the
followers deal with them as pure spirit. Yet humans are at least partially
incarnate, and find physical closeness and intercourse with a loved one
binds them together more strongly, usually creating a greater appreciation
of that person. Is it then not conceivable that fantasized mystical sex with
a spirit being would serve to promote greater spiritual advancement?
The trick would be not to be drawn "down to earth" by one's bodily
responses. Some meditation teachers discourage focusing on
a flame, image of a saint, etc., feeling it's merely a crutch which will need
to be discarded as one progresses. Yet many find such an object
serves as an aid to keep our wandering minds from being distracted by
mundane thoughts and subjects.

Intercourse with deities is a regular thread in many ancient and some
existing religions, whether the lustful gods of the Greco-Roman
pantheon, women wishing to conceive climbing upon the phallic statuary
of a specified god, or the amorous exploits of Krishna. Some say the latter
were purely symbolic, but do quests for spiritual and amorous bliss have to be separated? We are raised in a
culture which, despite its hedonism, remains puritanical and despises the
flesh. Which creates a falsely warring duality between spirit and body, as
it does with male and female.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:49 pm

(Originally posted by Sahyinepu)

I must say, that as a virgin, I would not know if my experience was simmilar to sex. Though I do recall asking Yinepu afterwards if what I experienced was simmilar to sex, and He sad it was better. So now I have even less interest in sex. I simply do not need it...that one experience was enought to fill me up for litterally years to come, and still I recall it with vivity. I do not belive this experience to have been the same as sex....I have talked to too many people who have had sex, and sex does not seem to overfow like this did....This was like waters....on another experience the waters came up from within my being, but did not overtake me, for I was standing...but they bubbled up nonetheless. I believe this is the crossing over into the higher planes, without the death. But perhaps, in sex, sometimes this simmilar plane is reached.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:50 pm

(Originally posted by Leilah)

Sahyinepu, I don't believe that Mike, nor MOST folks on this thread are talking about PHYSICAL INTERCOURSE. There are all kinds of sensual experiences that do NOT include penetration. So many people often get caught up in linguistics. While the gentleman who began this thread might prefer such things, I think, if you read through some of the other responses, you will see that intercourse is NOT the way most necromantics approach the Spirit of Death. As Mike said, "many mystics have had unions with the Divine or
other spirit entities which were erotically charged." Erotically charged does NOT necessarily mean SEX. If one is having an intensely intimate interaction with an entity, it is only natural for the body to react to the pleasures that he soul is experiencing. To "hold that back", as it were, would be to stifle the experience as a whole. You can STILL be a virgin and have "intercouse" with the divine.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:51 pm

(Originally posted by dan-ial)

I agree Leilah. The intercourse is spiritual. Not constrained by the bounds and expectations of our physical bodies.
------------------
"What lies before us and what lies behind us are small matters compared to what lies within us. And when we bring what is within out into the world, miracles happen."
Henry David Thoreau


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:51 pm

(Originally posted by Sahyinepu)

Well, now I think I may be a tad bit more confused....I do not think I am understanding this....Leilah said, You can still have intercourse with the divine and be a vergin....So now, my curiosity is, based on what I described, do you in your thinking believe this is sex, or intercorse, with the divine? I am quite confused...I do not even date, if that puts things into perspective for you..I just don't care to.
OK, but at least it seems most people on this thread are not physically engaging in anything...so actually, what ya'll are experiencing, is more what I was describing? Are you guys referring it to simmilar to sex because you have had sex, and find it simmilar then?

And Mike says my experience sounded highly erotic? You really think that? It was energy. like water...


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:52 pm

(Originally posted by dnekm ailep)

Yes, there are many different types of communions, but the important bit is that they are all directed to the same place.

We all have our preferences. I started out by just feeling what I call "the Lady", basically the universe personified. This was purely internal, between myself and the sky.

Later, it became physical, in the sense that whenever I made love with another I only thought of the Lady, and used the energies thus generated to shoot myself out to & join with her.

Aside from the obvious problems associated with being in "relationships" that were less than honest, there was something lacking. For I always got more out of joining with Her directly, rather than through a catalyst of any kind.

Intoxication of the soul, spirit or simply the mind (whichever way you want to look at it) is, I feel, more pure via the energy transferred and more intense.

Think of it this way - I get more out of inviting the universe within me than the shake & shudder of squirting on/in/with someone.

Call me a mystic, call me a mental case, whatever  But I got the best orgasm of my life by what I can only describe as the Lady driving Her littlest finger straight through my brain. There was nothing physical about it, yet the sensations overtook my whole body.

So - there's my 2 cents  

By the way, every physical orgasm I've ever had in my life has always been to the Lady. Personally, I feel that if you are going to use physical means as a way of approach you have to start at the very beginning. I "met" the Lady when I was eight years old. I think that it gets more difficult, at later ages, to direct the physical energies involved purely to source unless you started when you were very young, before you knew of these things. Otherwise the body takes over with it's natural impulses and nothing gets directed. But that is an entirely personal observation, relevant to my own experiences. And that's all I have to go by.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:53 pm

(Originally posted by RobsFantasy)

As I read through this thread I feel somewhat out of place.. by comparison, at least on the surface, my sexual 'feelings' seem more like typically male Neanderthal impulses rather than the more ethereal spiritual planes depicted here. That, and the fact that 'dem bones' are not my particular spiritual ladder... but rather the 'Springtime fresh'.
But my reason for tossing this out to the world is simply to present a different aspect to spirituality.. at least in my own mind. The Rev is correct in that the touching and feeling is part of the conduit... and to me the actual penetration embodies a spiritual connection (yeah yeah.. call the thing an 'interface' if you will) with the person who has just died... rather than a connection to an entity at a higher level. Ok... so my interest has all the Freudian earmarks of simply 'humping a dead chick'... you gotta take into consideration what goes on in the mind. And my mind is most definately connecting with that person I am penetrating... at least in my fantasies. A sad (and tearful) yet warm and exceedingly loving encounter. But the culmination of that spiritual connection is of course the release of my own bodily fluids AND the fact that it remains with the body... an offering, if you will, and NOT an orgasmic by-product of lust. Performing this act in a cemetary would be the ultimate act of love in the 'church' of all spirituality.

But, hey... I've never done it before. So I stand before you as an unproven soul... showing more faith than substance... but no less the love.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:53 pm

(Originally posted by Leilah)

Everyone's openness and willingness to share intimate desires on this thread is a wonderful thing! Keep it up!
As far as Sahyinepu's question "Are you guys referring it to simmilar to sex because you have had sex, and find it simmilar then?". Personally, and solely from my point of view, he only "simularity" that may be construed from these interactions is simply the physical reaction of the body during such experiences. Whereas physical "sex" culminates in orgasm, divine interactions culminate in rapture, which you could view an orgasm as being a miniscule version of that culmination. Basically, humans are always striving for union with the divine and sex seems to be as close as many THINK they can get, so they settle for these very short lived "highs" and think that that's as good as it gets in the flesh. But, as many of us here know, that couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't think such things are at ALL like sex. It's the difference between stale bread and ambrosia to me. But, hey...that's just MY opinion.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:54 pm

(Originally posted by Maddalena)

Here's my 2cents, Rev.
I consider myself pretty darn sexually open-minded and have tried just about everything, and I gotta tell ya, graveyard sex doesn't do it for me. At least not the death aspect of it. If there is any turn-on involved at all, it's the one associated with fear of getting caught or the perception of being observed, which you can get just as easily in any semi-public situation. But the association of sex and death seems to be an unnatural one since, to me, sex is so very life-affirming--terrestrial, physical life--so the association with death seems contrived, or just inappropriate somehow. And so I tend to associate sex with divine forces other than Azrael. That's not to say that dark fetishes don't turn me on, they can and do, but the associations in my mind aren't with death per se, they tend to be more subtle and complicated (not that Death isn't subtle and complicated, and not that Death is not always present everywhere).

I agree with you all that the purely spiritual "orgasm" is an awesome, powerful, wonderful thing, but I can't say it's superior to physical love-making since I've achieved the spiritual ecstasy through the physical so many times. It becomes a whole different ball-game when physical union "ends" with one's eyeballs exploding and the top of one's head flying off, infinite body expansion, union with the universe, etc..

And, no matter where and under what circumstances physical union is taking place for me, I always have that sense of being watched, because of my constant awareness that deity is present and participating.


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Westgate
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Posted: Mar. 03 2001,7:54 pm

(Originally posted by Hawk)

You post a very interesting message. After reviewing the other messages I am prone to agree with you. You cannot have one of those "spiritual ****s" without a woody or your panties wet. If you can, then you are on some pretty good chemicals. Some of these descriptions sound very literary with a high dose of fantasy thrown in. Isn't the name of the game a good sensual orgasm? Or do we need to cloak it in all in mystical words so it will be palatable for the masses. Lets call it like it is and quit tap-dancing like the good Rev does. I believe in reality and
sharing real experiences, so lets see if someone takes the


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