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Topic: Your Truth?, What is "true" to you?
Demian Sturdevant
Necromancer


Posts: 115
Joined: Mar. 2007
Posted: Mar. 22 2007,8:34 pm

Webster's defines truth, in the fifth position, as: agreement with fact or reality. What a load of crap. Whose fact? Whose reality? Are we to define fact as being the commonly held belief of the day? Is reality nothing more than the level of existance in which we walk and act out our day to day? By this definition, truth is nothing more than life as the individual lives it. To orphans in Brazil, living life in, on, and around a giant garbage heap, our truth is a dream. To the wealthy, the poor live a nightmare. Is it impossible for these worlds to connect and find a cohesive truth? I say no. The only truth that I know is that everybody lives, everybody strives, everybody dies. And for anyone to say that they know, for a fact, any more about what happens when a man dies than anyone else does is the source of all evil.
If we believe that there is no truth, or that truth is reality based, then what reason is there to care about anything? It is a belief that I fear anyone coming to. Truth, as I choose to understand it, is simply a walk. A pathway, if you will, to the realization that we are all in this together, and that quite frankly nobody knows any more than the other. Truth is, its all a crapshoot. Truth is, life is good, but, for those in the know, who have taken the time to work through their fears, death is better. Truth is, I know now that nobody else dies for me, on the cross or otherwise, only I die for me...  

...To me, this is truth enough to love, and truth enough to die for - for these are the only things that matter to me.

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damn straight sugar daddy Lucifer,
                      I been ridin' hotrails...
                                           
                                         -Tesco V.

                                 

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Jentzi
Dangerous Sock-puppet


Posts: 1602
Joined: Dec. 2005
Posted: May 13 2007,12:12 pm

Iīve been thinking alot lately. Iīve turned into a total question-all-things-person atm, I do that at times, I donīt know why..

Something Iīve come to ponder is a concept brought up in another forum I tend to visit. Someone asked about getting a soul back from the devil, if that was possible after "selling it"..and she got the typical "ask for forgiveness and repent"-answers.. I couldnīt help questioning that idea, and thus I started to consider what I believe about the soul. The answers in the forum was -very- culturally coloured, and that I think is what brought it about.

First: I find it -very- suspicious that even though this god-being is supposedly lord over all creation, you have to dedicate your soul to him, or he wonīt get it...considering heīs largely believed to be the only god. :P
This means, in my eyes, that heīs just a weak-ass and we have all the cards, as we always have had.
Second: WHY would s/he/it want souls? I mean, considering alot of people believe that only christian souls go to her/him/it
and all else go to this devil-character. Technically the devil would have alot more souls, both christian and non-christian, if it all goes down like people believe, and even different types of christians believe the other kind will go to hell.. (Itīs a mad wooorld..)
And THAT means, as I see it, that is, that for being a being that wants something alot, heīs still leaving alot to the believed competitor for these "priceless souls".
Doesnīt make sense.

Another thing I canīt get my head around is the idea of selling a soul.
To do that, you must first have the belief that you have a soul. That is a cultural belief, weīre told we have one from very early age, and we accept it, without further consideration.
You also have to have the belief that itīs priceless or atleast extremely valuable.
You must then believe that someone wants this soul..This is something that alot of people also just accepts just like that, which in my book reads as "we donīt really believe itīs OUR soul, just a soul..It doesnīt belong to us". This is, as I see it, just another proof that we donīt -really- accept the idea.

And after those ideas being programmed into oneīs mind, there comes the belief that you can use your soul to gain favours from "supernatural" agents (god, devil or Bongo-Bongo, you choose).
For some reason, thereīs always 2 agents.
Then the idea of selling a soul for advantages is born, usually in the belief that oneīs soul is so priceless one can get ANYTHING for it, and the "buyer" or recipient will want to give whatīs asked for if they only get the soul. :P
Yeah right.

I found it funny that the same people that, without blinking even, swallowed all that P.O.C and then claimed that god doesnīt buy his souls, or even that they believed itīs their souls when theyīve practically already sold it to this deity or whatever you want it to be.
I found it strange that they also consider that only the devil has to have his souls dedicated to him by a person by their own free will.
I keep wondering why they canīt see that the procedure is the same on both sides, but itīs just worded differently :P

In my eyes they are both deities, they have the same modus operandi, they have the same "lures"..Itīs the same coin, just different sides.

Personally I dedicate my perhaps-existing-soul to me. *grins* Thatīs my belief, that one has to retake it, not magically but mentally. Perhaps weīll be more happy if we just shake those ideas of other beings just snatching it off our backs and tell these ideas off.

Telling someone that their soul can be "taken" or "lost" is, as I see it, a very nasty thing to do. It robs people and subjects them to a idea that they havenīt asked for.

For my own belief on what a soul is for or what it is:
Iīm not totally sure yet. My current idea is that
A) We arenīt "given" them. It doesnīt seem logical. I keep thinking that we grow them, develop them. Theyīre a mix of residue, memories, experiences, things that are both basic and far away at the same time. Why we do it? Donīt know really, not yet.
B) The soul isnīt the main thing to incarnate..I think itīs the spirit, the soul is a smaller part of the spirit. The soul goes into a sort of slumber-period, thus we donīt remember much. I believe there are ways to access them though, but it takes time.
Sometimes, when the spirit is more "here", that is, when we are more aware, the soul doesnīt slumber. I think that becomes the case in time and with each reincarnation actually.
C) The soul and the spirit I believe is connected to each other at all times. The spirit feels, knows, itīs basically us without the bodies in the way :D The awareness that looks out from our eyes and so on is us, and thatīs also the spirit..it transfers things to the soul, both for safekeeping and because some experiences are to be kept. What makes it be kept and so on? That I donīt know.

I also donīt know if this is true or not, itīs just a thought-model I find logical, based on what Iīve experienced and considered over time. At times Iīm convinced that we donīt have souls, itīs just another word for the spirits we all are.

I just felt I had to write this, and I found that beliefs is the best heading for it. If itīs not rightly placed, feel free to move it.

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...Handpuppets..

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Demian Sturdevant
Necromancer


Posts: 115
Joined: Mar. 2007
Posted: May 13 2007,1:30 pm

Good thoughts and questions, J...

I have always had issue with the notion that we have souls. It is hard for me to accept that a soul is anything more than a construct created by man to give validity to the heaven/hell argument that relates to so many religions.

If there is no soul, than what is there for the flock to fear?

I have rarely heard it put into words so well, Jentzi...

They speak of souls being "washed in the blood of the lamb"

"Christ the redeemer"...

And you are soooo correct, the Devil is not the only one willing to purchase a soul, according to the words of the bible.

Me, I do not so much believe that we "have" a soul, as much as we "are" a soul.

And I agree that we are made up of much more than just that...

I believe that we are spirit; energy. These things never go away. They are continuous, and they are continuously incorporated...

Edited by Demian Sturdevant on May 13 2007,1:34 pm

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damn straight sugar daddy Lucifer,
                      I been ridin' hotrails...
                                           
                                         -Tesco V.

                                 

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Ninetales
Necromancer


Posts: 104
Joined: Mar. 2007
Posted: May 13 2007,4:36 pm

I do not believe the "Soul" is immortal naturally or even wholistic but rather at each life time the pool of life (Hel), so to speak, is dipped into and the out of the countless lives of those who came before (of which only some were human), are randomly scooped together and assemble into the new life. Thus the "Soul" can be damaged, attacked or even stolen. Much of Seidhr deals deals with Sa'l-craeft. I believe much of our purpose is awakening these "memories"(many of which occure simultaniously in the same time line) and gaining access to their experiences and unifying them. The other side of the equation is the Fetch or Fylgja (following/guardian spirit). The Fetch is the Guardian Genius, passed down through family lines and is the path to initiation in the Northern tradition and the repossitiory of all personal/ancestral actions. In accordance with the Sal it is reconfigured with each life time. Knowledge of both aids in the understanding of one's Wyrd but does not determine it. Thus truth is personal in my experience because you are the one who lives it. Truth just like magick in that what works for one may not work for another and will never work the same.

Well at least this is the way I understand it,
Ninetales

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"Think for yourself!"
Ninetales

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dnekm
the Grand Wazoo


Posts: 2475
Joined: Aug. 2002
Posted: May 14 2007,12:25 am

The Littlest truth

One bright morning, when I was young, I went looking for Truth.

I found the truth of the moment, fiery hot with Conviction, lurking around every corner.

As Time passed by I found the truth of today, the truth of yesterday, and the ever glittering truth of tomorrow. The truth of today is ever as a newborn, innocent and lacking of experience. The truth of yesterday is bound up with Hindsight, often found dwelling in the bottom of a glass, or bottle. The truth of tomorrow sometimes can be glimpsed, but skewed – as though through a diamond of many facets, none truly know which facet will appear.

Along the way I’ve met many gods, the small gods no one really considers gods anymore. Consternation, with his furrowed brow, walks alongside Loneliness – who seldom notices his presence. Sadness is a two faced god, sharing expressions with Joy – yet never are these two linked in public. Ecstasy is the small one hiding behind them. Love hides in a corner, rarely venturing to put forth her radiant face, while her sister Lust is often bedecked for a night on the town.

Dream sits alone in his ivory tower, and rare is the soul who ventures within to bring dreams forth into waking. Yet he sends out his shoots daily & nightly to all who are receptive. Peace, walking forlornly through beauty, often attaches a touch to his sendings, but she herself is difficult to grasp. Almost as elusive as Silence, who only dwells in shadow.

Inspiration shoots wildly in all directions, continually, and is amazed that so little takes. But her touch is of a moment, so light as to make a sparrow’s breath heavy in comparison.

But of all these, it was Truth I most longed to see. Not the little truths, her children, but the Truth. That glorious maiden who has sent more men spinning down the arduous pathways of their lives, and has caused more bloodshed in her name than one can even contemplate.

And it was her I found one moonless night. Skating on ice, under a cloud-lit sky. I knew she was there because I could not see her. I knew she was both laughing and crying because I could not hear her.

She was/was not singing. And this is what my ears did not hear....

I cannot be heard, I cannot be touched. I cannot be seen, I cannot be felt.

Yet has man grown me into a legend. I alone am responsible for all fortunes and misfortunes. I alone, I am told, control Fate, and Destiny, and all their kin.

I alone am unforgiven.

For all that is done in my name, I know nothing. I am a dancing shadow that can only be seen in the dark, for that is when eyes fail.

I spin in circles, upon slippery ice, yet to man I am a concrete eidolon - some great behemoth set in stone. But I am fluid. Man does not know me.

I sing to the winds and the stars and the shadows, for these do not listen. Only these truly hear.

I am held within the heart, nestling gracefully where none can see. I comfort you in times of despair, never deserting you even in your darkest hour. For, being un-grippable - I, alone, give you something to grasp. Deep within your core, there am I. My faces are legion, my voices a babel. I am a constant companion to those who have none, and where there are many am I never found.

Rest not, you who seek me - for I remain in motion, ever just beyond. It is just that you should strive, for in my seeking am I yet invisible. I can be anything, at any time. This is the grace of my masque, and the folly of my wisdom.

I am always with you.


And so I retreated to the little gods I’ve come to know. And Love came out of her corner and clasped my hand, smiling all the while. Loneliness has shown me his better side, Companionship. And she is beautiful, indeed. Peace now has a different field to wander through. Dream and Inspiration are more active than ever before.

For, having failed to grasp Truth, I now indulge in all her children, the little truths that sustain us moment to moment.

And Sadness has transformed into Joy.

(The littlest truth is this: She loves me.)

From: The Book of Night

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Ron Wood

Mystifies Me

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dnekm
the Grand Wazoo


Posts: 2475
Joined: Aug. 2002
Posted: May 14 2007,12:46 am

As for souls? see here:

http://www.westgatenecromantic.net/Night/souls.htm

They are my thoughts, as of several years ago...

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Ron Wood

Mystifies Me

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Ninetales
Necromancer


Posts: 104
Joined: Mar. 2007
Posted: May 14 2007,8:11 am

Interesting sir and never appoligize for quoting H.P.Lovcraft!

Wes thu hael!
Ninetales,
Loving the diversity of how people find or define "Truth!"

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"Think for yourself!"
Ninetales

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dnekm
the Grand Wazoo


Posts: 2475
Joined: Aug. 2002
Posted: May 14 2007,11:19 pm

Ah, I have to though.... What would Cthulhu think?  :beer:

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Ron Wood

Mystifies Me

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Jentzi
Dangerous Sock-puppet


Posts: 1602
Joined: Dec. 2005
Posted: May 25 2007,2:30 am

Quote (dnekm @ May 15 2007,1:19am)
Ah, I have to though.... What would Cthulhu think?  :beer:

Hmmm...that heīll eat you first?

I keep wondering why Cthulhu would eat people..wouldnīt he get poisoned by it?

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...Handpuppets..

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Morgan
Owned by Donn & Than


Posts: 9142
Joined: May 2004
Posted: May 25 2007,4:59 am

I dunno.  Feed 'em a controlled diet of non GM corn meal for a month, starve 'em for three days after that, then cook 'em up in garlic butter. . .

No wait!  That's snails.  Well, whatever.  Might work for long pig, too.  I'll tell you if I'm ever in Cambodia, Germany (,where it's technically legal to eat long pig), or hangin' with the Dayaks in Indonesia.

Edited by Morgan on May 26 2007,10:31 am

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NAMASTE, AND MY VASUKI LICK YOUR NOSE!

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